Friday 24 October 2014

Speakers: Ed Balls MP & Julian Worricker

JW:                 George Osborne has said show that these figures show that Britain is leading the pack in what is an increasingly uncertain global economy. What part of that statement would you take issue with?

EB:                  Well, I think the idea that his plan is working, that things are fixed when for most people watching your programme, their living standards are getting worse month by month by month. They have now done for four years and more. Wages still not keeping pace with prices. We also know our export performance has been week, our business investment has been slow to recover, the deficit is now rising again because the jobs being created are low paid jobs, retail sales fell in the last month. It is deeply complacent for George Osborne to say this is fixed or that he is doing better than other countries when we’re still lagging behind because our recovery has been so slow over the last few years. Most importantly though, people are not feeling the benefit. Wages aren’t keeping pace, we need an economy which works for working people and he has not delivered that here in Britain. He can’t blame the Eurozone for the fact that people are worse off than they were in 2010, £1,600 a year worse off for the average person a year. I think when he says it’s working, it’s fixed, I think most people just think he’s completely out of touch and not living in their world.

JW:                 Well let’s break that down. You say he can’t blame the Eurozone, it is surely true to say in the global economic situation that we currently reside in that what goes on south of the English Channel will have an impact here and that is partly an explanation for the fact that there has been this slight fall this quarter.

EB:                  Sure, of course what’s happening in the Eurozone is very, very worrying. It has been for some years. I wish George Osborne had done a better job advocating the kind of growth plan we need in the Eurozone but the fact is Julian our export performance year after year has been doing worse than our European comparator countries not better. He can’t blame the Eurozone when we’re actually exporting less well to the Eurozone than other countries in the Eurozone. He can’t blame the Eurozone for the fact that we now have a Parliament where people will be worse off at the end of the Parliament than at the beginning…

JW:                 But the problem with these debates is, you know, you will throw figures back and forth, George Osborne will quote the figures that suit him you will quote the figures that suit you. For example, the ONS has added that GDP grew by three per cent in the third quarter compared with the same part of 2013. In other words, the British economy is three per cent bigger than it was a year ago. Now surely that is something to celebrate?

EB:                  Look, of course that is good news, I want the economy to grow. We’ve had the slowest recovery for 100 years but we’ve got growth, that’s good. It’s concerning it’s now slowing down but the big issue, Julian, is that most people aren’t seeing a benefit because their wages are going down compared to prices rather than going up. And in the end, what we’ve got to do - if we’re going to win the argument that we can stay in the European Union but we can continue to win in world markets, we can create jobs and give people confidence for the future - we’ve got to win the argument that people can be better off. And at the moment when George Osborne says that he’s fixed the economy, most people are saying, “who’s he fixed it for? Because he’s not fixed it for me.”

JW:                 Just on that, I mean to use your phrase, if we win the argument. Do you accept at the moment, when you look at opinion poll findings, despite the message that you have just given on this programme, people do not yet believe that you have a credible economic alternative?

EB:                  Well, look, people have got to see the details of our plan and we are going to be setting that out: 25 hours of free childcare, a mansion tax to invest in the National Health Service, a cut in tax for working people, a minimum wage to £8. But also, very difficult decisions to get the deficit down in a fair way: continue for one more year with a one per cent rise in child benefit but reversing the top rate of income tax [cut]. I know we lost the election in 2010 and on those issues and on immigration we’ve got to show that we’ve learned and we can make the right, tough decisions for the future. But in the end it’s also about whose side you’re on. I think most people know George Osborne and David Cameron have stood up for a few people but not for most people. We’ve got to show that our policies, our economic plan isn’t just an economic plan for a few it’s not the kind of economic plan where I as a Chancellor could say “aren’t I doing well?” at a time when people are getting worse off. I’ve got to show our policies will improve the lot of most people in our country and I’m going to work hard every day to do that between now and election day.

JW:                 Right, let me deal with the EU which you mentioned in a previous answer. As you’ll be only too well aware, suddenly this bill has arrived for £1.7 billion courtesy of the European Commission. If Labour were in Government, what would you be saying today?

EB:                  It’s unacceptable and it is unacceptable it’s just been sprung upon people in this way but I’ve got to say what has our Prime Minister been doing? I mean, how could he suddenly be surprised about this, surely the Treasury has known about this for weeks and weeks and weeks?

JW:                 A week according to the research I’ve been reading this morning.

EB:                  OK, a week. The Prime Minister is now apparently claiming he wants to have a meeting of finance ministers in a month’s time. He should have had that last week. What you’ve got to do in Europe, look, I think Europe’s really important for investment and jobs, we need reform but you’ve got to be influential and win arguments.

JW:                 But are you saying if it comes to the crunch, we should not pay this bill?

EB:                  I think the way things work in Europe is you get people round a table and say “that’s not fair let’s get something sorted.”

JW:                 With respect that’s not what I asked.

EB:                  I want this bill to come down, I think a deal should be struck. I think a Labour government, in a hard-headed way, would pursue the national interest and build alliances. Our problem is that David Cameron now is isolated, one foot out of the door, ignored, and therefore he’s not getting the kind of good deal for Britain on immigration control or on the single market or now on the EU budget. It was only Labour last year who forced him into arguing for a cut in the budget which he eventually got. He wanted to go and argue for a rise in the budget. I presume that was because he didn’t think he could win an argument. You can’t have a Prime Minister who is ignored in Europe without the national interest suffering. That’s what’s happening, I think it’s not good enough. I think David Cameron should buck his ideas up and start being the Prime Minister.